It's not entirely clear to me how they vet, but I don't think it's wise to rely on their vetting no matter how they go about it. Keep in mind the most well-established editors and service providers rarely use Reedsy because they don't need it. That doesn't mean the people who use Reedsy aren't good, but any time there is a middleman service, it affects who is willing to get involved since they must give up a % of their earnings. The people most likely to do that are often unable to attract a sufficient number of clients outside of such platforms.
I’ve had an editing profile on Reedsy for several years. My sense is that their vetting is mostly (perhaps entirely?) limited to ticking off a list of credentials. The upside is that, so far as I can tell, there do seem to be a lot of accomplished professionals on the site, more than other matchmaking-type sites I’ve come across or been solicited to join. But, in dating as in editing, looking good on paper doesn’t mean anything if there’s no chemistry/you aren’t on the same page/pick your cliche. This is why, IMHO, it’s so important to have a conversation with the editor to feel them out. The “best” editor with a personality, process, or editing style you don’t mesh with will probably be less helpful than a pretty good one who gets your project and has a vision for improving it in a way that speaks to you. (Note that this doesn’t mean the editor is totally agreeable—quite the opposite, in fact. “Good editing” often means providing candid but respectful critique.)
I think this matching matters more when it comes to developmental or substantive editing, since it’s so much more subjective, and, as a result, the types of revisions that emerge from it can be much weightier (and thus, fraught). If you don’t gel with your proofreader or indexer’s personality, that’s probably fine.
But to bring it all back: in general I like Reedsy and think they’ve done a lot to a) help legitimize self-publishing and b) educate aspiring writers through their extensive library of resources and course. The writing quality of the clients I’ve worked with has varied tremendously (from non-writers to people publishing traditionally),
but most of my experiences have been good.
Like Jane points out, as my business has gotten busier and the majority of my leads/collaborators started coming to me directly I work with them less less; I probably take on a project through them once or twice a year, and only if it seems like a really good fit. But I think the platform has fostered a pretty healthy publishing ecosystem—so long as the writers and editors trying to find each other do their due diligence!
Thanks for sharing your experience, Adam. I've seen Reedsy consistently having to advertise and recruit for new freelancers (e.g., through Publishers Marketplace job boards) because I think people such as yourself eventually establish a robust business based on referrals, repeat business, and reputation. Writers need to understand that's the nature of the platform when they go shopping there. Again, nothing against professionals who use it. We all have to start somewhere.
Adam, thank you so much for sharing your detailed thoughts. It looked to me like it was a sort of “tick the boxes” experience, but I agree - it’s about fit. Thanks so much!
Reedsy do have a fairly stringent vetting process. They messaged me continually on LinkedIn when I went freelance asking me to join their pool, making it sound easy. When I investigated I discovered there were in fact a lot of hoops to jump through - quite rightly, from the user’s point of view. (I decided not to bother.) As per Jane’s piece, though, still doesn’t guarantee quality/fit..
A sentence in your closing paragraph reminds me of what we are told during pre-flight instructions: secure your mask before assisting others, advice that works in lots of situations!
Great points. Twice I was absolutely disappointed when I met with a doctor my own health care providers had recommended as the person they went to and trusted. A good match depends on both sides of the equation - I think that's why the marriage idea is often mentioned in finding a good editor/agent/publisher to work with.
For decades I have been the grateful beneficiary of your insights, cut-the-BS information, and way-ahead-of-the-curve analysis regarding writing and publishing. Thank you! This little essay came at such a helpful time for me, reframes my frustrations and re-sets my expectations. We are all better for your generous work.
It's so important to find the right fit! I'm a 9AA shoe. Nothing else stays on my foot. I'm also quirky and I need someone who understands and appreciates it. Not everyone does and I had to accept that and find my peeps. Surround yourself with those who get and appreciate you and want to help you. If they fall off they aren't a good fit.
Thanks for the reality check. In writing and in life we need to take full responsibility for our decisions and live with the consequences. As you stated, sometimes both parties go in with good qualifications and good intentions and things just don’t work out. We have to own it, learn from it, and move on.
Thanks, Jane. I find you to be a thoughtful and fair person in the publishing industry. It seems to me that those who are looking for the "right" fit might do well to understand themselves more deeply - what their needs are, how their personality plays into relationship dynamics, their specific goals - and then take some time interviewing editors, researching potential agents, etc. before jumping into searching for a quick fix.
I have to say I'm a little angry at the person who tried to blame you for a bad experience with a hybrid publisher. The adage "no good deed goes unpunished" comes to mind. You are a valuable educator and resource for writers. I truly enjoy your newsletters and other content and I recommend you often - and not once has someone come back to me to chastise me for the recommendation. ;)
I love your analogy to finding a PCP. It reminds me of searching for childcare when my kids were young. I had recommendations from people I respected and yet had a completely different (negative) reacition to some of the daycare centers they suggested. Thanks again for all you do!
So true, Jane! All of this. I think we also are slow to acknowledge that our needs may have shifted since we followed up on a recommendation we got from someone at some point. I have found the best way to know if a relationship is working for us is to give it a sincere try and then decide. Thanks for the honesty and attitude of service with which you put your work out there for us. I still remember our conversation years ago as illuminating and helpful to me then, and even today! Thank you!
More and more it feels like trying to provide "help" often backfires; especially when people aren't considering the source they hear contradictory information from.
This is how I feel on very dark days. Fortunately, I think such backfires remain a tiny percentage of cases. They're just harder to forget when they occur, especially when people have invested large sums of money.
I can agree with that. It's never the ones giving accolades that stick. I try to stay out of the dark - but having decades of knowledge and experience used to count for something.
Jane, thank you for saying that when someone says they are not a good fit for you (potential customer) it is a service. As a book coach, I try not to say yes to folks I don't think I can serve. If I can, I recommend another coach. If I say no to someone, it is (usually!) not a personal judgement against the prospective client. It's my own judgement about myself, and whether I think I can help.
This is unfortunate. I’m sorry you went through this. Another one of life’s little mysteries solved though.
You are one of the publishing voices I trust implicitly and explicitly. I recommend you to the uninitiated because you are authoritative, knowledgeable, and trustworthy.
And you’ve earned that.
You are one of the few people vocal about the snake oil pervading this industry, and more remarkable you have been consistent about this for as long as I can remember—you, Penn, and Friedlander and Joel is no longer with us. May he rest in peace.
It’s good to know that these associations—I’ve looked askance at some over the years—were made neither at your behest nor with your approval.
Since I’m an adult, when I saw them I just assumed you have a mortgage to pay, or kids to send to college. And too, as an adult you come to understand that there is always a significant delta (and sometimes a gigantic disparity) between the marketing and the product.
But it did cause some cognitive dissonance that you’ve resolved now with this post.
I remember spending an entire year giving myself anxiety trying to find a reputable marketer.
You know as well as anyone that it is not difficult to determine how many books an author needs to overtake the #1 bestseller in a given category on Amazon.
When I was more naïve, I figured if I could just find a marketer who would guarantee I could get X amount of books sold for Y amount of dollars then my clients would always be delighted.
I never found that marketer.
Which is fine. That led me to learning Amazon ads and Bookbub ads, and how to accurately communicate expectations to my clients.
Which led, ultimately, to my reputation.
I have a reputation for being effective, but also ornery and disagreeable.
I would love to say that this reputation is unfair, but I am committed to honesty.
I understand how the person who tells you that the marketing you’re consuming as an author is making exaggerated claims, and then proceeds to debunk most of the industry narratives comes across as disagreeable, and maybe even a doom merchant. A “hater” as the kids say.
I accept this. I would rather be disagreeable than incompetent.
Because I dislike marketing, and because saying good things about myself feels like bragging, I don’t do anything to market myself. I am grateful that the authors who need me find me somehow (usually by way of embarrassingly effusive recommendations) and I go out of my way to delight those people I choose to work with so the embarrassing recommendations continue to lead to more business.
Thank you for telling people the truth about our industry, and for being consistent about calling out the bad actors and the snake oil salesmen, and most importantly, for debunking the industry narratives often promulgated by marketers and ad men.
Most authors are not going to spend their days working on a beach in the Caribbean.
And as much as that narrative looks good in ads, the reality is when you get on a video call and your client sees the ocean, and the umbrellas, and the sand behind you, they assume you’re not working very hard on their project which introduces yet another hurdle you have to overcome.
Like getting a reputation for being ornery and disagreeable, partly because you never accept video calls or Zoom conferences. Damned if you do, damned if you… etc. etc. 😉
Or more accurately, I'm sure there are people who feel that way about choices you've made.
But, fuck how they feel.
That's the price of being well-intentioned, knowledgeable, well-known and candid on a medium where support for every opinion and perspective, however asinine, is just a Google search away.
Sarah McLachlan did everything in her power, volunteered her art, time, reach, money, and her notoriety to try to save puppies and you see how that turned out for her. 🧐
You don't have to be perfect, you're good. Pun intended.
We've moved many times, and finding good recommendations is difficult. Often, I've found the person recommending has only had one dentist, doctor, or stylist, so they have no comparisons.
When we moved to a Chicago suburb, a friend who loved to eat out routinely suggested restaurants. My experiences at her favorite places were routinely disappointing. Over time, I queried her often to identify which restaurants not to visit. Lol
Thanks Jane. I'm in the middle of hiring a substantive editor for my speculative fiction novel. Do you know how Reedsy vets their editors?
It's not entirely clear to me how they vet, but I don't think it's wise to rely on their vetting no matter how they go about it. Keep in mind the most well-established editors and service providers rarely use Reedsy because they don't need it. That doesn't mean the people who use Reedsy aren't good, but any time there is a middleman service, it affects who is willing to get involved since they must give up a % of their earnings. The people most likely to do that are often unable to attract a sufficient number of clients outside of such platforms.
Makes total sense. We all start somewhere. Thanks Jane!
I’ve had an editing profile on Reedsy for several years. My sense is that their vetting is mostly (perhaps entirely?) limited to ticking off a list of credentials. The upside is that, so far as I can tell, there do seem to be a lot of accomplished professionals on the site, more than other matchmaking-type sites I’ve come across or been solicited to join. But, in dating as in editing, looking good on paper doesn’t mean anything if there’s no chemistry/you aren’t on the same page/pick your cliche. This is why, IMHO, it’s so important to have a conversation with the editor to feel them out. The “best” editor with a personality, process, or editing style you don’t mesh with will probably be less helpful than a pretty good one who gets your project and has a vision for improving it in a way that speaks to you. (Note that this doesn’t mean the editor is totally agreeable—quite the opposite, in fact. “Good editing” often means providing candid but respectful critique.)
I think this matching matters more when it comes to developmental or substantive editing, since it’s so much more subjective, and, as a result, the types of revisions that emerge from it can be much weightier (and thus, fraught). If you don’t gel with your proofreader or indexer’s personality, that’s probably fine.
But to bring it all back: in general I like Reedsy and think they’ve done a lot to a) help legitimize self-publishing and b) educate aspiring writers through their extensive library of resources and course. The writing quality of the clients I’ve worked with has varied tremendously (from non-writers to people publishing traditionally),
but most of my experiences have been good.
Like Jane points out, as my business has gotten busier and the majority of my leads/collaborators started coming to me directly I work with them less less; I probably take on a project through them once or twice a year, and only if it seems like a really good fit. But I think the platform has fostered a pretty healthy publishing ecosystem—so long as the writers and editors trying to find each other do their due diligence!
Thanks for sharing your experience, Adam. I've seen Reedsy consistently having to advertise and recruit for new freelancers (e.g., through Publishers Marketplace job boards) because I think people such as yourself eventually establish a robust business based on referrals, repeat business, and reputation. Writers need to understand that's the nature of the platform when they go shopping there. Again, nothing against professionals who use it. We all have to start somewhere.
Adam, thank you so much for sharing your detailed thoughts. It looked to me like it was a sort of “tick the boxes” experience, but I agree - it’s about fit. Thanks so much!
Glad to be useful! Good luck to you.
Reedsy do have a fairly stringent vetting process. They messaged me continually on LinkedIn when I went freelance asking me to join their pool, making it sound easy. When I investigated I discovered there were in fact a lot of hoops to jump through - quite rightly, from the user’s point of view. (I decided not to bother.) As per Jane’s piece, though, still doesn’t guarantee quality/fit..
A sentence in your closing paragraph reminds me of what we are told during pre-flight instructions: secure your mask before assisting others, advice that works in lots of situations!
Gotta take care of ourselves before we can take care of everyone else.
Great points. Twice I was absolutely disappointed when I met with a doctor my own health care providers had recommended as the person they went to and trusted. A good match depends on both sides of the equation - I think that's why the marriage idea is often mentioned in finding a good editor/agent/publisher to work with.
Yes, I like that analogy, too, for agents/publishers. You don't want me picking your spouse! At least I hope not. ;-)
For decades I have been the grateful beneficiary of your insights, cut-the-BS information, and way-ahead-of-the-curve analysis regarding writing and publishing. Thank you! This little essay came at such a helpful time for me, reframes my frustrations and re-sets my expectations. We are all better for your generous work.
Thanks so much, Amanda. Glad I could be timely with this one!
It's so important to find the right fit! I'm a 9AA shoe. Nothing else stays on my foot. I'm also quirky and I need someone who understands and appreciates it. Not everyone does and I had to accept that and find my peeps. Surround yourself with those who get and appreciate you and want to help you. If they fall off they aren't a good fit.
Thanks for the reality check. In writing and in life we need to take full responsibility for our decisions and live with the consequences. As you stated, sometimes both parties go in with good qualifications and good intentions and things just don’t work out. We have to own it, learn from it, and move on.
Would you please recommend a good therapist? (Just kidding..)
😏
Thanks, Jane. I find you to be a thoughtful and fair person in the publishing industry. It seems to me that those who are looking for the "right" fit might do well to understand themselves more deeply - what their needs are, how their personality plays into relationship dynamics, their specific goals - and then take some time interviewing editors, researching potential agents, etc. before jumping into searching for a quick fix.
I have to say I'm a little angry at the person who tried to blame you for a bad experience with a hybrid publisher. The adage "no good deed goes unpunished" comes to mind. You are a valuable educator and resource for writers. I truly enjoy your newsletters and other content and I recommend you often - and not once has someone come back to me to chastise me for the recommendation. ;)
Oh, just give it enough time. (Kidding.) Thank you, I appreciate it!
We all have to figure out what works for us individually.
I love your analogy to finding a PCP. It reminds me of searching for childcare when my kids were young. I had recommendations from people I respected and yet had a completely different (negative) reacition to some of the daycare centers they suggested. Thanks again for all you do!
Another great example! Thank you.
So true, Jane! All of this. I think we also are slow to acknowledge that our needs may have shifted since we followed up on a recommendation we got from someone at some point. I have found the best way to know if a relationship is working for us is to give it a sincere try and then decide. Thanks for the honesty and attitude of service with which you put your work out there for us. I still remember our conversation years ago as illuminating and helpful to me then, and even today! Thank you!
Glad I could help along the way!
More and more it feels like trying to provide "help" often backfires; especially when people aren't considering the source they hear contradictory information from.
This is how I feel on very dark days. Fortunately, I think such backfires remain a tiny percentage of cases. They're just harder to forget when they occur, especially when people have invested large sums of money.
I can agree with that. It's never the ones giving accolades that stick. I try to stay out of the dark - but having decades of knowledge and experience used to count for something.
Jane, thank you for saying that when someone says they are not a good fit for you (potential customer) it is a service. As a book coach, I try not to say yes to folks I don't think I can serve. If I can, I recommend another coach. If I say no to someone, it is (usually!) not a personal judgement against the prospective client. It's my own judgement about myself, and whether I think I can help.
Precisely!
This is unfortunate. I’m sorry you went through this. Another one of life’s little mysteries solved though.
You are one of the publishing voices I trust implicitly and explicitly. I recommend you to the uninitiated because you are authoritative, knowledgeable, and trustworthy.
And you’ve earned that.
You are one of the few people vocal about the snake oil pervading this industry, and more remarkable you have been consistent about this for as long as I can remember—you, Penn, and Friedlander and Joel is no longer with us. May he rest in peace.
It’s good to know that these associations—I’ve looked askance at some over the years—were made neither at your behest nor with your approval.
Since I’m an adult, when I saw them I just assumed you have a mortgage to pay, or kids to send to college. And too, as an adult you come to understand that there is always a significant delta (and sometimes a gigantic disparity) between the marketing and the product.
But it did cause some cognitive dissonance that you’ve resolved now with this post.
I remember spending an entire year giving myself anxiety trying to find a reputable marketer.
You know as well as anyone that it is not difficult to determine how many books an author needs to overtake the #1 bestseller in a given category on Amazon.
When I was more naïve, I figured if I could just find a marketer who would guarantee I could get X amount of books sold for Y amount of dollars then my clients would always be delighted.
I never found that marketer.
Which is fine. That led me to learning Amazon ads and Bookbub ads, and how to accurately communicate expectations to my clients.
Which led, ultimately, to my reputation.
I have a reputation for being effective, but also ornery and disagreeable.
I would love to say that this reputation is unfair, but I am committed to honesty.
I understand how the person who tells you that the marketing you’re consuming as an author is making exaggerated claims, and then proceeds to debunk most of the industry narratives comes across as disagreeable, and maybe even a doom merchant. A “hater” as the kids say.
I accept this. I would rather be disagreeable than incompetent.
Because I dislike marketing, and because saying good things about myself feels like bragging, I don’t do anything to market myself. I am grateful that the authors who need me find me somehow (usually by way of embarrassingly effusive recommendations) and I go out of my way to delight those people I choose to work with so the embarrassing recommendations continue to lead to more business.
Thank you for telling people the truth about our industry, and for being consistent about calling out the bad actors and the snake oil salesmen, and most importantly, for debunking the industry narratives often promulgated by marketers and ad men.
Most authors are not going to spend their days working on a beach in the Caribbean.
And as much as that narrative looks good in ads, the reality is when you get on a video call and your client sees the ocean, and the umbrellas, and the sand behind you, they assume you’re not working very hard on their project which introduces yet another hurdle you have to overcome.
Like getting a reputation for being ornery and disagreeable, partly because you never accept video calls or Zoom conferences. Damned if you do, damned if you… etc. etc. 😉
Your comment unfortunately makes me feel like there must be many more associations out there that I'm ignorant of! 😬
Oh, I'm sure there are.
Or more accurately, I'm sure there are people who feel that way about choices you've made.
But, fuck how they feel.
That's the price of being well-intentioned, knowledgeable, well-known and candid on a medium where support for every opinion and perspective, however asinine, is just a Google search away.
Sarah McLachlan did everything in her power, volunteered her art, time, reach, money, and her notoriety to try to save puppies and you see how that turned out for her. 🧐
You don't have to be perfect, you're good. Pun intended.
We've moved many times, and finding good recommendations is difficult. Often, I've found the person recommending has only had one dentist, doctor, or stylist, so they have no comparisons.
When we moved to a Chicago suburb, a friend who loved to eat out routinely suggested restaurants. My experiences at her favorite places were routinely disappointing. Over time, I queried her often to identify which restaurants not to visit. Lol
A cunning strategy!